Albany, N.Y. — Since they were enacted three years ago, bail reform laws have become a focal point in the conversation of public safety.

"When we talk about public safety, for some reason right now, we always go to bail reform, and I don't know why," said Alice Green,executive director of The Center for Law and Justice in Albany. "For me it's always been a constitutional issue, everybody should have the protection of the Constitution. You are assumed innocent until proven guilty."

On one end, Green said she's seen several stories of success thanks to bail reform laws.

"We see people here at the Center...people who would have gone to jail, but because of the bail reform were able to stay in the community. They could keep their jobs. Take care of their families and have an opportunity to get their lives together...rather than putting them in jail," Green said. "I thought it was very clear, there's no indication at all in the research that releasing people under bail reform has any connection to violence. It just isn't there."

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On Monday, Jan. 30, a full room of lawmakers met for nine hours to go over criminal justice data surrounding bail reform.

Compared to 2019, re-arrest rates within 180 days are up 2 percent in New York, from 19 percent to 21 percent. The re-arrest rate dropped from 22 percent to 21 percent from 2020 to 2021. Outside of that, data varied depending on the agency, some showing higher rates of crime than others.

"I don't ever get into percentages and numbers and everything else," said Albany County Sheriff Craig Apple, who wants the judges to have more discretion, says. "I talk about real life perspective on the streets, what we're hearing, what we're dealing with every day. We're seeing people calling us, complaining."

When it comes to her newly proposed changes to the bail laws, Gov. Kathy Hochul said she's also not getting into the numbers, saying a problem lies within conflicting language for the judges in the current laws.

"I didn't need crime data to show me anything, in fact we look at data a lot," Hochul said. "I never said that the bail changes are responsible for the crime rate, because we had a nationwide crime rate, it's up all over the country. There's a list of criteria the [judges] are supposed to look at, but it says you have to use least restrictive means to return to court. I'm not sure how that's resolved easily. I want judges to be held accountable for their decisions."

In her 2024 budget, Hochul is proposing to remove that "least restrictive" language from the law. If enacted, a judge would no longer need to consider setting a financially reasonable bail upon a defendant.

"We can destroy people by putting them in jail," Green said. "This is an equity issue. Why should people who have the money be allowed to do whatever and be out on the street, and people that have no money, be sent to jail?"

This would be a third set of changes to the bail laws since 2019. The last change took place in 2022, when several candidates, like Hochul's gubernatorial opponent, Republican Lee Zeldin, were using claims during their campaign that bail reform was tied to a rise in crime.

So, in the spring of 2022, Hochul changed the laws to give judges discretion over a list of criteria. When setting bail, they could now consider factors like a defendant's history, charges and firearm history.

"People with my background are at risk," said Roni Minter, who has started two community organizations following her time in prison. "Someone like me, what if I get arrested for something I absolutely didn't do? Because of my record I might be held. Because of my past crimes I might be held with no bail, and that wouldn't be fair to me. It wouldn't be fair to my granddaughter."

Yet, some want more changes to these laws.

"A lot of these [bail laws] have created a lack of a moral obligation to follow the law,"Watervliet Police Chief Joe Centanni said. "We have clear and unequivocal dangerous criminals wreaking havoc in a lot of our communities throughout the state."

Law enforcement officials say there's something missing from those factors judges can now consider. The phrase "alleged harm" is now included in consideration for the judges thanks to those changes in 2022, but the word "danger" is not.

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"The law has to be changed to allow elected judges to consider the danger a defendant poses to the community when deciding bail," Centanni said. "The fact they cannot do that is nonsensical."

Their goal is to keep "bad people" off the street, and believe the resources provided inside correctional facilities can help rehabilitate someone who goes down the wrong path.

"We started an addiction recovery center inside that correctional facility," Apple said. "The positive results and lower recidivism for those that were on that tier were unbelievable. We've got their undivided attention, so we always try to convince people to make the best of it. Programs on the outside do work everyday. I wish some of them would join forces instead of taking a pot of money and spreading it out."

Formerly incarcerated people like Roni Minter say it was those programs on the outside that were vital in her rehabilitation, using three key resources to move her forward.

"I had the housing, employment and I had treatment with a therapist," she said. "I had all those things to help me to a better life."

Lukee Forbes was also once in prison, but has since become a voice for the community in the Capital Region, hoping to relate to the needs of people looking for a step forward. He says a judge's ability to connect people to resources beyond incarceration is vital.

"That is 100 percent important," Forbes, who currently works for the Hudson Catskill Housing Coalition, said. "There should be no way that the state can be able to sentence people to life sentence, to any amount of time, or take people into the process without thinking about when they're leaving that process."

One of the key arguments for bail reform advocates lies in those moments, and what happens after someone is released. They say jobs are lost and families are strained when someone is unable to make bail and held in jail.

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"Families are more important," Green said. "Maintaining contact with families is much more important as a rehabilitative tool than anything we know of."

Green and her fellow bail reform advocates say the changes to the law are getting them closer to where things were prior to 2019, while some of those on the law enforcement side hope for the opposite.

It'll be up to the Democratic majority legislature in the coming weeks and months to debate whether or not Hochul's changes go through once again.